This Ocarina Of Time interview with Shigeru Miyamoto was from the February edition of GAMEJIN.

Translated by
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Formatted by
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Source here: https://archive.org/details/Gamejin-February-1998/Gamejin%20February%201998/mode/2up

Nintendo Dojo

Interviewer: A dozen or so minutes by taxi from the JR Kyoto station, In a corner of the Nintendo headquarters building, which is only three times tall as it should be, perhaps to guard some secrets, we had the opportunity to interview Mr. Shigeru Miyamoto, who had just completed work on “The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time”. We were able to discuss many things including Zelda development secrets and not Child Link but Miyamoto’s personal childhood memories.

Special Interview: 
Shigeru Miyamoto - Nintendo Information and Development Division Head

Interviewer: At last “The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time” has been released! Congratulations!

Miyamoto: Thank you, it’s finally completed. To the fans, thank you so much for waiting patiently. Even for me it was difficult, I basically only thought about Zelda all winter and summer that I hardly had any time off to relax. I felt like a fool by the end!

Interviewer: This Zelda game was originally intended to release on the Nintendo 64 Disk Drive (N64DD) but was changed to a normal cartridge release. Does a Zelda game for the Disk Drive still exist or is it just a phantom? 

Miyamoto: The cartridge version of Zelda uses a 7 times stronger model than the main system planned for the Disk Drive version of Zelda that was originally planned. So it’s not really a phantom or anything like that (laughs). Actually, we spent a lot of time deliberating and wondering whether or not to use the Cartridge or the DD system. Last summer, we eventually decided to create the main game on cartridge and expand it using the DD. In the end it turned out to be a good decision to go with cartridges. The N64 might be a cartridge based console, but those cartridges allow for large amounts of data to be handled and processed at the same time quickly. The N64 reads audio and animation data in real-time. There is a big difference in the scale between a game that relies on repeatedly reading and writing vs loading in real-time. Real-time has fewer restrictions on the amount of calculations and combinations of actions that work at any given time, so there is a lot of flexibility with enemies for example, whereas on CD and Disk Drive, you become quite limited. That’s the basic reason we ended up using cartridges over the discs of the DD, however the difference of 4mb of ram lost from now using the DD was an unfortunate limitation we had to work around. In actuality the DD version of “Zelda” is completed.

Interviewer: So will Zelda be released on the Disk Drive in the future?

Miyamoto: Although nothing is officially decided yet, we are planning to combine the DD and the cartridge versions of the games so that when you enter a dungeon in the base game the DD data is read and loaded giving access to a new dungeon. Of course, the DD has not been released as of yet, so I can’t say anything else about it. I think that Zelda obviously has its roots in strong puzzle solving gameplay elements, with different mazes and items used differently in various locations which allows for lots of fun ways to play the game. If we are able to link with the DD this allows us in a sense to expand the puzzle solving possibilities within the game world.

Interviewer: There’s obviously the scenes where you can play the ocarina. Would it possible then to add a sort of “Ocarina Music” software? 

Miyamoto: It’s not that it would be impossible, but it might have just been easier to create one from scratch. The other day I asked, “Could we connect four controllers and play the ocarina as an ensemble?”. Maybe if I had asked earlier we could have made it happen.

We used about 90% of the N64’s capabilities.

Interviewer: How much of the Nintendo 64’s hardware capabilities were utilized when using the cartridges?

Miyamoto: When we created Mario 64 about 64% of the hardwares limits were tested, but with this new Zelda, I think we pushed the limits even more. Perhaps i’d say we used about 90% of the capabilities. At first, we tried to use the same tools from Mario 64’s system but we ran into a number of issues with the 3D technology, so we ended up swapping and adjusting a lot of aspects to make things work which took a lot of time and effort (strained laughter).

Interviewer: The camera’s movements and points of view in particular are a bit more advanced than they were in Mario 64 aren’t they?

Miyamoto: Hmm, when it comes to the camera and point of view like shooting the bow and arrow or the slingshot, you are aiming from a first person point of view, but we stopped short of removing the reticle from the player’s view. This was a bit challenging for me. The game world and real life are obviously different; in the game world when you see the reticle you know your shot will always land. The real fun of a slingshot is that you don’t know if you will hit or miss until you shoot so I wanted to give players a more realistic response when using it.

I have nothing against chickens (smiles) - Miyamoto

Interviewer: When it comes to Zelda, you have referred to them as “touchable scenery”. Even now as you describe using the slingshot, is the theme of this Zelda any different from the so-called virtual reality in terms of “response” and “experience”?

Miyamoto: When I create a game, I strongly value the sense of “What would I do if I were the main character”. Today’s game productions are very efficient. Ideas are generated by hand, then given to programmers and created in almost an automatic fashion. But I don’t think that’s good enough. Only when the designers and programmers actually work and review ideas together can they create games that are interesting from a sensory point of view. However, the efficiency of that method is a lot slower and results in delays, like Ocarina of Time’s (laughs). So when it came to designing things like the cucco event, I wondered what would happen if you held the cucco and then ran, wouldn’t it feel nice if you flew? This led to the solution for what happens when you run off a cliff holding onto a cucco.

Interviewer: This type of moment also exists when you abuse the cuccos in the Super Nintendo version of Zelda isn’t there? Is this relating to some sort of childhood memory, perhaps revenge for pain suffered from chickens when you were a child?

Miyamoto: Huh? No, no, no, no. Not at all. It didn’t have to be a chicken, but we had made the chicken first so we used it as is. We didn’t have enough time to create an animal unique to Hyrule.  

Interviewer: Horses and fish alike are not unique to Hyrule for the same reason then?

Miyamoto: However, there is a hidden side quest featuring the horse Epona. During development some staff argued about making it a unicorn or a moose but in the end we ended up going with a horse. The game was certainly also influenced by [Ghibli’s] Mr. Miyazaki’s Princess Mononoke. Both works were roughly in development around the same time and when we finished I was surprised at the similarities. Scenes of Link firing the bow and arrow while riding Epona or the Giant Goron walking behind the mountain stirred thoughts like “oh that’s Ashitaka!” or “That looks like the Nightwalker”. We really struggled with the similarities. However, in the end we decided to really build up Hyrule this time to differentiate it..

I want players to enjoy it as if they were going to an amusement park!

Interviewer: What does it mean when you say “create the land of Hyrule”?

Miyamoto: For me, 3D worlds aren’t just about virtual reality, but about creating a vibrant world. In my words, it is a sort of “box garden” [hako niwa], a place that feels so real and lively that players are under the illusion that it really exists. In other words, it’s like creating an amusement park so to speak. As an example, if you visit Disneyland over and over again, you naturally memorize the layout/map of the park. It’s our hope that players will remember the land of Hyrule in the same way.

Interviewer: Please describe some of the new appeals Zelda has this time around.

Miyamoto: Unlike linear games that can be cleared simply by pressing a button, Zelda is a game series that is fun to play because of the puzzle solving elements-at least for me. I think that in this way, if you watch other people play the game or follow a strategy guide while playing you reduce the amount of “Zelda-like fun”. I think you would maximize the fun of the game by playing with a subjective feeling, almost as if you yourself were Link. Therefore, I think players will find the most satisfaction when playing with this mindset and saying things like “the game is fun because i'm playing it!”. I’d honestly be over the moon if players experienced our game in this way.

Bourgeois sports aren’t my favourites.

Interviewer: Earlier, a PR representative told me that you [Miyamoto] belong to the ski club within Nintendo. He said that you were already quite good so you must be even better now!

Miyamoto: Wow, what a surprise aha! I used to be in the mountaineering club when I was a student, so I definitely enjoy mountain sports a fair bit. Although I don’t have many brilliant accomplishments when it comes to competitions. Unfortunately last season I was so busy with Zelda that I didn’t get to go, so this year I’m quite excited to go skiing again!

Interviewer: Speaking of, are there any other sports you’re fond of or enjoy?

Miyamoto: No specific sport comes to mind, however I recently started swimming. It feels really great to be physically active. However, I definitely have no interest in golf or tennis. You see, in those sports the equipment helps determine the outcome and if you don’t practise, you don’t play. In short I don’t like the bourgeois aspect to those games, I prefer sports that can be played with simple equipment like baseball in the park.

Interviewer: When you’re exercising, is that when your game ideas bubble up? Do you have an “Aha!” moment?

Miyamoto: Hmm, I’d say it's actually the opposite. I exercise to empty my mind, and forget the thoughts that I’ve been stewing over. Once I start making a game however, that’s all I can think about. I start obsessing over the finest details, things like “I set that at 8 but maybe it’s better set at 7.5”. If I don’t get these ideas down right away, I feel sick and then the ideas get frozen and stuck in my head. In short, it's a balance between concentration and disseminating those ideas. In my case, swimming is effective in facilitating that.

I love playing the guitar, I was even in a band!

Interviewer: Outside of using sports and physical activity to relax, I wonder what other things you like to do? Perhaps eating delicious meals or listening to music?

Miyamoto: I really love playing the guitar, I play it so much that people around me say they’re actually happy to hear it. The other day I asked “Why do you think it’s so noisy?” and they said it’s because all my songs end halfway through. (Awkward laugh). As it turns out, I’m the type of guy who only practises the cool parts and solos and then once I can play them I go “Alright, that's good enough!” and move on. So sometimes that means it’s just the intro and I show some rust, the guy I’m talking about doesn’t seem bothered by it but that’s not the case for everyone else around.

Interviewer: What kind of music do you cover? Additionally, what genres are you a fan of?

Miyamoto: I really like acoustic sounds. A while ago I used to really be into bluegrass. I also really listen to a lot of country blues and R&B. I don’t have any CDs but Irish, Andean folk and Japanese taiko drumming get my heart and body moving. Speaking of which, I noticed the other day that the Zelda development team is sort of like an acoustic band in a way.

Interviewer: Does that mean each member of the development team played a drum-like or vocal-like role, and they “played” the music of Zelda by collaborating together on ideas like a jam session?

Miyamoto: Hmm, how best can I say it?..I think the point is that everyone on the development team shares the same values. It’s easy to itemize things that are Zelda things and things that aren’t. There’s a shared similarity as if the team is in a meditative state and saying “aum” [buddhist meditation noise] together kind of like keeping a steady rhythm as a band. Acoustic music has booms in popularity every few years but when it doesn’t it just continues on at its own pace. Likewise, I think our team tries to keep up with what we think are good ideas rather than just adopt what is popular at the time. Of course, it’s always prudent to work with designers who can skillfully incorporate popular or trendy elements and create games that are on the cutting edge of the times. However, it’s much cooler to stick to your beliefs and make big breakthroughs at calculated moments. All the greatest bands are like that, and I think I’d also like to follow that way of thinking.

Interviewer: It’s like aiming for The Rolling Stones!

Miyamoto: It would be cool if it was, I might need to do a little work on my face and figure…(laughs). Ahh maybe it’s better if I don’t. Afterall, acoustic bands need to look a little roughed up to look moody don’t you think? (everyone laughs).

A long time ago, I wanted to become a manga artist or a puppeteer

Interviewer: My own image was that Mr. Miyamoto seemed like the type to enjoy classical music, so I’m a bit surprised!

Miyamoto: Oh, I also do listen to classical music from time to time. I bought my first record when I was in junior high school, it was called “Pomp and Circumstance” (laughs). I liked classical music, especially marching bands, even more than the Beatles! When you listen, you get quite a visceral feeling inside that elevates your mood don’t you think? I really loved that feeling and couldn’t get enough of it. I used to think pretty often “I want to become a conductor when I grow up!”.

I’m curious to see how they respond to my tricks!

Interviewer: People often write in their graduation essays “My dream one day is to become ____”. When you were a child, was it your dream to become a conductor?

Miyamoto: When I was in elementary school I wanted to be a puppeteer. At the time the program “Hyokkori Hyotanjima” had just started airing on TV and I wanted to create my own puppets like that. Later on, in junior high school I also had aspirations of becoming a manga artist but by the time I graduated I had given up on those two dreams. It was quite the succession of setbacks (strained laughter).

Interviewer: Whether it’s manga or a puppet show, you can clearly see and understand the audience’s reaction right away right?

Miyamoto: Yeah that’s right, I love the practical jokes of someone digging a hole and hiding inside it while someone passes by, or attaching a string to a 1000 Yen bill and pulling it away. After all, it’s the same thing as making a game right? I’m always curious to see how players interact and respond to my tricks. Apparently I’ve been doing the same thing ever since I was just a kid (laughs).

Interviewer: Oh will you be making any kind of “pitfall” games in the future Mr. Miyamoto? Please share some insight into your planned projects!

Miyamoto: Well first off I’m releasing two guitar albums on CD, then I’m going skiing…(all laugh together). But speaking seriously, I really want to create a new genre of video games in the near future but before that we have to continue development on Mario 2. We already have Mario and Luigi running around together but like Zelda we have to start by replacing a huge part of the system to get it working properly. I guess the days of going to the pool without a vacation are about to start again. 

“I like pranks like digging a hole and waiting for someone to fall in while secretly watching.”